The Emerging Blog

Out of Bounds Comments

2006-03-12T23:27:00.000-08:00

Here I am, for what may be my last comments to everyone about the emerging church; I shall miss it. John, I really appreciate what you said about the necessity of being sensitive to where other people are at in their spiritual and personl journeys. I think that the Church and people in general are rarely understanding in that way. Someone who may actually be a mature (or relatively mature) Christian will assume that others should have the same outlook and be able to "pull it together" in the same way that s/he does. We automatically assume that the world that we see is the world that everyone else sees too. If someone is rude, we see them as going against our understanding of the world rather than operating in a way that may make complete sense in the world that they perceive. We take things far more personally than necessary. This does not mean, however, that we should not be there to help to transform the world in which they are living; if we are trying to show a redeemed world through Christ, then it necessitates that we are changing the old. We should (myself included) learn to see the bigger picture rather than just our hurt feelings. I think that it helps being in a postmodern/emerging environment. With more people being able to express their different views, it becomes easier for the "rude" people to be accepted.
Katie, I completely agree with you; not everyone knows how to be a good DJ. For so long, churches have tried to implement the use of secular songs, art, movies, etc. within worship; and so frequently, it is done so badly. There is a technique to doing it, obviously; there has to be a bit of an artistic eye involved. Many times though, I think that the people who are trying to combine worship and culture, however, don't really know very much about the culture that they are trying to use. They see something that is popular to youth culture, give it a cursory glance, and then expect to be able to use or copy it within worship (this is particularly true with music). In order to truly be DJing worship and culture well, we must understand both well (if we understood culture but not worship, you would also have badly done worship). In order to do this successfully, we must have Christians who are not afriad of culture, who are willing to thoroughly understand it. I think that the emerging church is important in this way, because it is not afraid of culture. Too often, I think that Christians believe that if they become too understanding or involved in culture, then they will somehow be tainted with the world and sin. To me this does not truly show faith in Christ; if we are close to Him and to other Christians, then it is culture that we will be transforming and not the other way around. In this way, the emerging church seems to show a great faith in the Lord, that He will allow believers to be in the midst of the world (where all the people and the mess and suffering is) where they can do the most good, rather than hiding in a church trying to lure others inside. For all of us, I think that we just need to remember Who is actually is that we follow.

Out of Bounds!

2006-03-08T22:42:00.000-08:00

I believe that in discussing the emerging church, Out of Bounds Church by Steve Taylor is useful for understanding why these unstructured churches are beginning to appear in many areas of North America and in Europe. Taylor begins by showing the realities of our postmodern society. Because of the nature of technology, we can go from image to image, from reality to reality, from ad to ad in the space of a second or less. We are baraged with multiple thoughts, world views, and lifestyles in the time it takes to click a mouse or change a channel. In this way, our world has become fluid and interchangeable. We are able to change our "look", our identity upon each visit to the mall. The consumer culture promises to change your life; changing the outside changes your life. (Working in the mall myself, for a very well-known brand, it has made me wonder if I have inadvertently become a priestess of the consumer culture; the things that I sell promise to change your look, and, therefore, your life. The store even says that we need to "convert" lookers into buyers; they already use religious terms for the process). And, of course, if you do not like one identity for more than a week, you can change it to another one next week. Although there is danger in this fluid, commercialized state, postmodernism has also allowed all sides to be heard in discussion; it is no longer just one view that it taken.
Furthermore, amidst what some might call the chaos of postmodernism, people are looking for real, authentic communities. They long for acceptance within a community that supports them in all areas of their lives. This is true among believers, and would-be believers. Taylor believes that in order to draw people to Christ, we must be going through the process with them; we are not there just for the one-time event of saying "yes" to Christ, and not before or after this. He likens it to being like a mid-wife. The professional doctor will be there mainly just to deliver the baby, and then s/he will be off to somewhere else. The mid-wife will be there primarily to deliver the baby, but also to see to the emotional needs of the mother and father and of the real life problems that are occuring at the time. Instead of being the professional doctor, we should be like the mid-wife who gets down into the "mess" of the process until the baby is born (the baby being salvation...by the way, we are meant to be there after salvation happens also). Taylor envisions a church that is focused on having a real community that cares about the needs and lives of its members.
Taylor presents several ideas that he believes that the emerging church uses. "The church rejects individualism": it is about the community. "The church leaks love": there is love and compassion for all. "Oneness is located in relationships": you are not whole outside of relationships with your community. "Tradition is also relational": tradition helps to maintain the relationship that the community has with those who have gone before. "It is time to get missionary": Taylor's unique way of stating the emerging churches desire to be reaching out to those outside their community. "We believe in one, holy, apostolic church": the church is one community that should lead others to Christ through relationships (although, it might take some convincing to get some denominations to believe that we are one church).
In comparing Mosaic to Out of Bounds Church I believe that in many ways, it is similar to the type of postmodern church that is needed for a postmodern society. There is an acceptance of creativity and diversity. Artists are encouraged to use their gifts for the good of the community. The only thing which I would be concerned about in reference to Taylor's book would be the hierarchy present within Mosaic. Taylor's model is based upon community and the directions that the lives of the individuals are taking; they are to be there to support each other. This makes the hierarchy very loose; one does not know who will be coming to fill the seat next to you from one day to the next (he has many of his theological discussions within coffee shops). Many are concerned that this leads to chaos within community if you cannot predict who will be there or what they will be bringing to the group. In ways this is correct; but Taylor maintains that if we trust the Holy Spirit as we claim, then we should be able to trust the He knows who He is sending our way. I think that a danger in Mosaic could potentially be a reliance on the structure rather than on the community and on the direction of the Holy Spirit. (I am not saying that this is happening; but it could.) With only relying on the structure to keep the church together, Mosaic could become an accessory to go along with the life style that a person wants this week. It seems like a "cool" church, so it might go well with the shoes that I bought this week. This aspect of postmodernity could happen to any church, actually. In order to combat this, there has to be a reliance on the Holy Spirit and a willingness to be in real relationships with the members of the community. Instead of just seeing each other on Sunday, you are also a part of their lives. If we only rely on a structure, then this may not happen.

Comments...Re-imagined?

2006-03-05T23:45:00.001-08:00

I think that John makes a good point. Often times, when one reads about the emerging church, there is not a lot of tangible information. This is likely mostly due to the fact that there just aren't very many people out there who have personal experience with a church of this nature. There are selected examples of small groups of people that do emerging services, but a person almost has to fall into a group like this or conduct a serious hunt. As the emerging church continues, I think that there will be more and larger tangible pictures of what an emerging church is like (there are more examples now than there were several years ago). I think that it is valuable to see what Solomon's Porch is doing, and that the emerging ideals can be effectively put into practice. I almost wonder, though, if we finally do have all of these great examples of what an emerging church is like, will it just become its own structure. The anti-structure then becomes the new structure of the church; I wonder if people are just destined to climb into a dogmatic routine just as soon as everyone is used to the radical change. Are we in an endless viscious cycle? Anyway...I think I may have rambled on there a little bit.
I think that it is amazing that John's group has become something of that nature, "a whole life group." I believe that this type of connectedness is what many of us desire. I think that this was the real problem that I as I grew up in church. I always felt that these small groups, and Sunday school groups were supposed to be deeply involved with each other's lives. Often I thought that they actually where, but that somehow I was just excluded from that, and it was hidden from me. Now, I think that those groups were never really as supportive as I always thought that they were, and that those in the emerging set actually are having these relationships that everyone has always wanted within the church (and many...not all of course...do not have these needs fulfilled).
Katie, I wondered if you see any long term differences that would come of Tribe's difference with Solomon's Porch. You said that Tribe functioned throughout the week, but more towards the individual rather than to the community, in general. I was wondering if you think that over time this will change, or what are good or bad things about having this type of focus. Do you think that it is better to be functioning for the individual or the community or maybe there should be some misture of the two?

Church Re-Imagined

2006-03-01T23:46:00.000-08:00

I suppose the first thing which strikes me about Church Re-Imagined by Doug Pagitt is the journal entries that he published along side the text of the book. Doing this seems to allow for the fact that the regular members of Solomon's Porch also have ownership of this movement. It is not just about what the leaders have decided is wisest for the group. The input of "regular" people is also important (the people that might not necessarily be able to publish their own book).
Pagitt explains that for the meetings on Sunday nights, Solomon's Porch tries to diminish the differences between those who are "leaders" in the church, and those who are not. To do this, they create the room to look more like a living room with couches, more "normal" as Pagitt says. This gives a setting in which all people can feel more like they are on an equal level with everyone else. It is one thing for a group to say and even to believe that everyone is equal, but often times it is difficult to make it look this way when the leaders are still speaking in the front and everyone else is sitting in pews listening to them. This is done rather than giving the regular "stage" and "audience" set up for a service. By changing the space, the can bring this equality closer to reality. Another way in which Pagitt mentions that Solomon's Porch brings this more equal type of membership about is by having the Scripture reader for the day be someone who just stands up from the congregation (this is obviously at those times when there is more the traditional use of space with the leaders up front and the congregation in the "audience"; and this reader is also usually a woman, just because Solomon's Porch believes that most often people think of men when they think of the Scripture). When the attention is suddenly directed from the people up front to someone in the pews, it gives the sense that anyone can be a part of the leadership.
Pagitt also explains that he has a time of Bible discussion on Tuesday nights; this is a way of helping other people to get new spiritual insights and also a way for him to learn new insights from other members of the group in order to use them in preparation for Sunday's sermon. I find this to be another means of giving ownership to the church body. Instead of locking himself in an office to work on the sermon, he will go to the congregation for advice and for other understandings of the Bible. This can allow the people to see that their thoughts and ideas are directly influencing the teaching in the church.
In reference to Mosaic, I think that Mosaic shares some aspects of the things that Solomon's Porch is trying to accomplish, but there are some things that they do not share in common. The Sunday services at Mosaic are designed to be very welcoming and open. On one Sunday that I attended, those who were serving as ushers were passing out bottled water to everyone in the auditorium, and they were also encouraging everyone to come as far forward so that everyone could be as close together (and more family-like) as possible. I think that this does exemplify the desire of the community to feel at home with each other. I do not know if Mosaic would try to make this more of a "living-room" type environment. Unfortunately, as this service meets in a school auditorium, there is little that can be done to change the fundamental structure of the space. There will be the stage and there will be the audience, unless they have persmission to remove all of the chairs which are bolted to the floor. In a way, whether they like it or not, there is going to be this symbol of hierarchy in existence; the leaders will be in the front and the congregation will be in the audience. I think that this is a good example of how a space can effect your experience.
From what I am aware of, the pastor of Mosaic does not have a similar dialogue with the people in his community to discuss his ideas for sermons. It may be that the size of Mosaic might make this impractical, but I think that it might be something useful to the community in order to give everyone a sense of ownership over the church.
For Mosaic, I think that the heart is there to give everyone a sense of equality and ownership in the service and, in many ways, this is done by trying to use everyone's talents; however, I think that there is still the visible signs of a hierarchy in existence. This is not necessarily a bad thing; it just isn't an "emerging" thing.

Comments "to Come"

2006-02-26T23:32:00.000-08:00

I think that both John and Anny bring a few questions to my mind about the apostolic aspect presented in Shaping of Things to Come. In ways, this kind of leadership seems to give the most difficulty of all the ways in which Frost and Hirsch believe the Church must change. It almost seems that we do not know how to lead in this way. Maybe we just do not know yet exactly how to get away from the traditional structure. How is everything supposed to hold together if we don't do it the old way? Like the book says, a lot of trust must be given to the congregation, which can be uncomfortable. In a way, this almost seems to shoot ourselves in the foot, because here we are at a seminary in order to make a living leading the Church. I guess the only answer is to try it though; and we won't always get it right. That's why it's a good thing that we ultimately have the Lord looking out for His Church.
Katie, you bring up a good point. I appreciate that you question the wisdom of throwing out Paul's ideas of Christ. You're right; he was much closer in proximity and time than we are to Him. We can read the Gospels for ourselves and make some suppositions about what Christ was like or what He would have done; but, realistically, we are going to get some of it wrong. It is valuable to have the opinion of the Paul there for us, as well; it would be valuable for us to have any authentic source concerning Christ. I think that you give a good caution; just because we may have been focusing too much on Paul's opinions does not mean that we should now proceed to ignore them. There's that whole saying about "throwing the baby out with the bath water" that comes to mind. (Have you ever noticed that old sayings, nursery rhymes, and fairy tales can be very scary in reference to kids?...but that is a discussion for another time.)

Comments about the Churchless Faith

2006-02-23T14:13:00.000-08:00

I am very sorry to everyone who is concerned about the fact that I have not been posting comments...partially this was due to my lack of internet, the confusion I experience when following most directions, and the fact that for some reason I was not aware that Annie actually was in our group...not that these are excuses...but they are reasons. So sorry; it won't happen anymore.

In reading Katie and Annie's blogs about The Churchless Faith, I began to wonder about something. Annie talks about experiencing disillusionment with the Church similar to the stories recorded in the book. Personally, for about the last five years, I have been struggling with attending my home church. For a few years, I just wondered what was wrong with me that I never felt like I wanted to be at that church; in the last two years or so, I have realized that maybe this is not my fault. I am in the same boat, so to speak, as many of the people written about in Churchless Faith. Katie says that she has met people at Tribe who have only ever associated themselves with that particular Christian group, or people that actually still attend their regular church. I have been wondering what differences there will be with people who have only been influenced by an emerging community. The people who have been hurt or just plain bored by the traditional church have all kinds of baggage to go through when they finally decide to come to an emerging community. I wonder if a person that does not have this history, or at least a reason to be discontented with the traditional church setting, would have a different kind of relationship to the Church and even to Christ. A person that does not have emotional problems from their childhood will usually have a fairly stable adulthood, and so I wonder if that applies to this instance. I wonder if that makes the completely emerging individual more healthy, or whether they will end up making all new mistakes; then the next church movement after the emerging church will have to pick up the pieces from that. Dunno...we'll find out, I guess.

Shaping of Things and Mosaic

2006-02-22T23:37:00.000-08:00

The Shaping of Things to Come by Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch examines the ways in which the Church must approach worship and communicating the Gospel within this postmodern society. Mostly, I agree with the messages that the authors wished to convey. The only thing that bothered me about this book was that it seemed defensive at points. I know that this is probably because the authors are used to having people disagree with them, but for me, who already mostly agrees with them, the defensiveness seemed a little unnecessary.
Frost and Hirsch basically say that the way in which most Christian churches currently "do church" is no longer working for people from a postmodern society. In order to fix this problem, they present four things that a church (whatever form a church takes) should be "missional, incarnational, messianic, and apostloic." A missional church is concerned with ministering to those around them (saved and unsaved). This is not done by telling people all the time that Christ is the answer they need; instead, a missional church builds relationships with people and becomes a real part of their lives, and shows Christ daily, while not being pushy. By incarnational, they mean a that the church must find a way to bring Christ into the culture rather than trying to hide from culture or create a separate church culture. The necessity of being messianic means that all of this is based on what one saw Christ doing in the Gospels. The Church should see the things that Christ did and do those things. Finally, the apostolic church has a different kind of leadership than most churches have been working with. Most churches are very hierarchical, but a leader that leads like an apostle is going to be more like a guide than an absolute authority. In this system, the congregation has much power to influence its leaders on what is necessary for this particular group; this requires the leaders instill a great deal of trust in its congregation, which can be difficult for some leaders to do. However, this style of leadership can insure that everyone feels included and that the church is actually becoming something that is for its congregation and not for the pastor.
I believe that Mosaic uses some of these new ways of "doing" church. The church is missional in that it places great emphasis on being in real relationships with each other. There is a stress on going through each other's lives together; on the other hand, I do not perceive that this extends to the surrouding communities. In some ways, the church seems only to attract people who have already been "church people". There should be some point of contact with the regular people. Mosaic, I would definitely say, tries to be incarnational. This may be due to the great amount of artists in the congregation, but there seems a great emphasis on taking the things within culture and using them for a redeemed purpose. I think that Mosaic does put an emphasis on doing the things that Jesus was doing. I have noticed that this seems to be a trend with people of a younger age (late 20s and younger) whether they are in a emerging church or not, however. Finally, I struggle to find evidence of an apostolic style of leadership within Mosaic. I do have the impression that the leaders are open to listening to differing opinions and people are greatly encouraged to be involved, but I still have the sense that there is still a hierarchy within this church that follows the modern type church. In all of this, I believe that I still come out with my previous opinion: Mosaic is not an emerging church, but it has many emerging tendencies.

On "The Churchless Faith"

2006-02-18T18:32:00.000-08:00

Okay, first, I would like to say that I am a very bad person. I thought that this was supposed to be posted by tomorrow, but it was actually supposed to be Wednesday. So, I am sorry to my group members that are supposed to be commenting on it...oops!

Upon reading Churchless Faith by Alan Jamieson, I would like to compare Mosaic Church to the experiences and insights related within the book. This book tells many stories of people who still described themselves as believers, but who, for a variety of reasons, had decided to leave the church that they had been attending. Often these churches that they had left were churches that they had been attending for many years, and frequently, these "leavers" (as they are called in the text) will not find a new church to attend. They will leave because they have been angered or hurt or bored by their old church. Some of the reasons for leaving was because the sermons seemed irrelevant, because the church was too centered on man than on God, and because the church just seemed to narrow minded. The book goes further to explain that many of these leavers will begin to deepen in their faith even though they are not attending a church. Also, sometimes they will form small groups of like minded people; these will be other people who have also become disenchanted with their churches. These groups are meant to be a place to form deep relationships.
Examining what I know of Mosaic in light of Churchless Faith, Mosaic almost seems a congregation of leavers. Many of the members of Mosaic are artists, who often will not find a place for themselves within a traditional church setting. Art is often treated with indifference or scorn at many churches. It would not be surprising for the artists themselves to feel unwelcome in environments such as these. For me personally, I began to attend Mosaic for the very fact that I have been discontented for several years with the church where I grew up. The book speaks of the "leaver sensitive" church. This kind of church addresses the issues which are important to the believer who has become discontented and left his/her original church. Among other things, churches such as this allow the attender to "question and doubt" and "provide a theology of journey". I have found Mosaic to be very open-minded and very interested in providing tools for the whole of a person's life. It is a holistic type of church. Mosaic emphasizes the need for small groups, in order to give each person a support network and a way of giving of themselves to the community.
Jamieson calls the "leaver senstive" church similar to the seeker sensitive churches, which attempt to address the problems which seekers have with the traditional church. In a sense, the main service at Mosaic is more like a "leaver/seeker sensitive" type of service. It has sermons that are relevant to life and it tries to make everyone feel welcome and included. At the same time, however, I believe that Mosaic may also be similar to the end result of the "leavers": those who find a small group of like minded, like "faithed" people. The small groups at Mosaic are the places in which people are supposed to have help growing in their spiritual lives. People are encouraged to look at several different groups until they find one which they believe suits them, and at that point, they should seek to develop relationships with these people. It can be like a miniature "church", and can have some earmarks of an emerging church.
I believe that Mosaic seems to be a place for people who are potentially "leavers". It still is a traditional church, in that it has a definite structure, and it bears some resemblances to the seeker sensitive church, but it also seems to address the needs of those who are disillusioned with their church of origin.

Emerging? Sort of...maybe not.

2006-02-12T23:31:00.000-08:00

In order to better understand emerging churches, I have decided to analyze the style and structure of worship presented at Mosaic. I heard about Mosaic about a year ago, and was told that it is an emerging church. Although I have only attended Mosaic on several occasions, I would tend to say that it is not actually an emerging church; however, it may exhibit some tendencies of an emerging church.
Mosaic's worship services take place in several locations. Two of these locations are near Maranatha High School in Pasadena, and at the Club Mayan in LA. Mosaic offers four different services on a weekly basis. Another main component of Mosiac is its system of small groups. Unfortunately, I have not yet had the opportunity to attend one of these groups, but I shall be very soon. The small groups are integral to participation within the church. One is not considered an official member until s/he is part of a small group. Also, when a person becomes part of a small group, there is an expectation that s/he will now become an active within the small group and within the church at large. Everyone is encouraged to be involved in some way. Another striking feature is this church's friendliness towards the arts. Artists of all kinds offer their particular art forms in the service. It is common to see actors, singers, painters, and dancers in the service. Some of the dancers are even break dancers. There is a particular small group that is geared specially for artists, as well.
I believe that this church has very many of the aspects of an emerging church as presented in the book Emerging Churches. For example, an emerging church will have a great emphasis upon the community and upon what each individual can contribute to the service. Each person attending Mosaic for any length of time is expected to develop intimate relationships within the small group of their choice. Rather than being anonymous members of a congregation, there is a great emphasis upon having intentional relationships. Also, instead of just merely using the guitar player and the pastor and no one else, people with all kinds of talents are encouraged to contribute their piece to the worship service as well as to thier small groups. This exhibits a tendency of emerging churches to draw everyone into the whole; worship becomes unique to that community because of the people present. Instead of a McDonaldized form of church, there is something that is unique to the community.
I also believe that Mosaic's (admirable) practice of using all kinds of different types of art, as well as art from culture is also an emerging tendency. The emerging church worships through the culture that it finds itself within. It is a way of redeeming the surrounding culture, by finding what is excellent (or even just really good) in culture and finding ways in which it applies to spiritual life. Mosaic will also use those things found within culture and use them in an incarnational way. In fact, a few weeks ago, an Eminem song was used during the worship service. This was a way of taking something out of culture (something that is even a little dubious in some people's eyes) and using it in a redemptive manner. Incidentally, it was the real song; not a cleaned up for Christian's version of it (I don't appreciate it when people make a secular song "Christian" because I believe it does violence to the original song). Like the emerging church, Mosaic seeks to redeem culture by bringing Christ into it rather than rejecting it or trying to turn it into something completely different.
Ultimately, even in light of these other things, I do not believe that Mosaic is truly an emerging church, however. Mostly, I believe this because there is still a structure to it that is very similar to the traditional, modern church model. For instance, there is still a pastor (usually the same pastor each Sunday) who gets up and does a sermon. In some ways, there is still a very strict heirarchy. The pastor gets up and everyone else listens to the pastor. This happens at pre-established times each week. Also, Mosaic has its own administrative offices. These aspects do not seem like an emerging church as presented in Emerging Churches. An emerging church would be far more likely to lead as a group rather than have a few established leaders. Granted some people are gifted at leadership, and should be doing this, but an emerging church is more likely to try and develop a consensus. And most likely, an emerging church will not have an office building.
All in all, I do rather enjoy attending Mosaic, however. Its support of the arts is admirable, as well as refreshing in light of the fact that many churches have not been supportive of very many art forms. I will be attending further services at Mosaic, as well as attending a small group. I anticipate that I should find more emerging tendencies within the small groups, but we will see.

What I will be talking about....I hope...

2006-02-09T18:03:00.000-08:00

All right, with this series of blogs, I am going to be discussing the worship and community that I find at Mosaic in Pasadena in relation to what I have been learning about the emerging church during class. Basically, in the last year, I have heard a lot of people describe Mosaic as an emerging church, however, I do not necessarily think that this is the case...and I will write more on that later for the 1,000 word blog that I will be doing.

Fragile Beginnings...I'm doing what?

2006-02-03T18:59:00.000-08:00

All right, this is my blog, and it is for my class on the Emerging Church. As this is also my first blog ever (isn't that exciting), not quite sure how to start this yet, but I'm sure that my subsequent entries will be riveting. Oh, you'll be excited. There will be all kinds of deep, emerging ideas going on here. And that's all for now.